ATVUtah Forum - American Fork Canyon Trail Closures

Crazy Lady

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American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
12/07/07 at 09:17:06

Hey if any of you like to ride up American Fork Canyon in the winter on your atvs you may be interested in knowing that the Forest Service has changed the classification of across the snow vehicle to exclude atv's. The trails up AF have been posted as closed to atvs.

Earlier this year, the Uinta NF put out a public comment notice where Brian Ferebee, the Forest Supervisor, detailed the proposal. You can read all the pertinent information on the Uinta website by following this link: Multimedia file viewing and clickable links are available for registered members only!! You need to

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Go to the bottom of that page to the "Winter motorized use forest plan ammendment" section. All the info is there.

Fred Hayes made this suggestion:

At this point I would suggest that every ATV user who is concerned about this call the Uinta National Forest Supervisor's Office at 801-342-5100 and talk to Brian Ferebee personally to voice their concerns. Don't let them pass you off to a secretary or someone else. Talk to Brian. It will best if he hears from affected people every day when he gets to work, rather than all on the same day, so spread out the calls. Let him know how this affects your use of the Forest during the winter months. Let him know that the south fork of AF Canyon (above Tibble Fork) isn't a snowmobiler destination as much as it is a family playground where ATV use is predominant. Those are the issues we stressed in our comments.

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UtahChad

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #1 - 12/07/07 at 15:09:08

I'm all for keeping trails open, but I don't have a problem with this one. Maybe it's because I also own a snowmobile and prefer that the groomed snowmobile trails not be rutted out. Do you really want to ride these trials on an ATV from December 1 to March 31 anyway? Most of the time the snow is so deep you wouldn't get very far. I admit that I don't spend a ton of time up there, even though it is only a 20 minute drive from my house, but I have very rarely seen ATV's there during the winter months. I think we need to be careful about picking and choosing our battles. To me, this is really a non-issue. You are still free to ride the area in the spring, summer and fall when you can actually get around on an ATV and see the whole area. So what is the problem?

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Crazy Lady

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #2 - 12/07/07 at 16:37:57

UtahChad wrote on 12/07/07 at 15:09:08:

I'm all for keeping trails open, but I don't have a problem with this one. �Maybe it's because I also own a snowmobile and prefer that the groomed snowmobile trails not be rutted out. �Do you really want to ride these trials on an ATV from December 1 to March 31 anyway? �Most of the time the snow is so deep you wouldn't get very far. �I admit that I don't spend a ton of time up there, even though it is only a 20 minute drive from my house, but I have very rarely seen ATV's there during the winter months. �I think we need to be careful about picking and choosing our battles. �To me, this is really a non-issue. �You are still free to ride the area in the spring, summer and fall when you can actually get around on an ATV and see the whole area. �So what is the problem?

The problem is my atv funding is being used to groom those trails and yes we ride those trails alot during the winter both as a family and as a club. �We have been riding it for over 15 years! �I have a big problem funding the grooming if I can't ride on it. �This is a big deal and I might add that I see more ATVs in the winter up there than I do snowmobiles. Also regarding your "rutted out" issue, I don't like the way the snowmobiles dig big holes in the groomed trails from goose-ing �the throttle either but choose not make a big deal out of that and also may I remind you that snowmobiles don't have to stay on the groomed trails but as you said, atv can't really go off the trails cuz the snow is too deep. �Another thing I'd like to point out, we have rescued more snowmobile riders out of that canyon than I can count. �Many of them soaked, on foot and suffering hypothermia. �We have also pulled them out of the river and towed them down the mountain when they break down. �Oh ya, we're up there alot night and day and we have come in handy a number of times for the snowmobile community. �If I was you, I'd re-think my position. �One last thing, according to State Law an ATV is classified the same as a snowmobile.
CL

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Crazy Lady

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #3 - 12/30/07 at 22:59:59

Guess we caused a bit of a rukus up AF Canyon Saturday morning. �Might say that since our AF Canyon winter ride is what actually led to the start of Pathfinderzz ATV Club, we're a bit ticked about the Forest Service's decision to prohibit atv access on the groomed trail. �Kind of chaps our hides since we contribute most of the money (through registration) that grooms that trail. �

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ATVUtah Administrator Offline ATVUtah Webmaster Posts: 4710 YaBB Admin Land Gender:	Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures Reply #4 - 12/30/07 at 23:28:41 You trouble maker you! KEEP IT UP!! We need to have more protests where ever we are being shut out.
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RazorKQ

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #5 - 12/31/07 at 13:22:54

We really need to be active during the comment period. �Once a decision has been made, it is tough to reverse it. �I researched a bit this morning and found a general letter posted from the FS last May. �The spelling has some issues that have nothing to do with the problem, though it may be a bit unprofessional. �Here is what I found:
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I do like what Cat Lover did. I think we need more of that. I too use AF Cyn year round and would have been there to add numbers to the protest but was unaware. Great job CL!

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Crazy Lady

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #6 - 12/31/07 at 13:31:18

RazorKQ wrote on 12/31/07 at 13:22:54:

We really need to be active during the comment period. �Once a decision has been made, it is tough to reverse it. �I researched a bit this morning and found a general letter posted from the FS last May. �The spelling has some issues that have nothing to do with the problem, though it may be a bit unprofessional. �Here is what I found:
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Ya I'm aware of that letter. �I got one sent to me. �They only send it out to the people that request to be put on their mailing list. �I recieved that little publication less than a week before the comment period ended. �They posted a very small article tucked away in the local paper too. �I forwarded the info to our club and I also sent the FS my comment. �Mr. Ferrebee has stated that he recieved only 2 comments, one for and one against so he proceeded forward. �Now, that everyone knows about it (after the fact) nobody can get him to respond or talk to anyone. �He hides behind his secretary like a coward. �I agree that we need to get involved during the comment period but come on....less than a week? �He was going to shut it down no matter what. Angry

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Crazy Lady

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #7 - 12/31/07 at 13:34:40

RazorKQ wrote on 12/31/07 at 13:22:54:

We really need to be active during the comment period. �Once a decision has been made, it is tough to reverse it. �I researched a bit this morning and found a general letter posted from the FS last May. �The spelling has some issues that have nothing to do with the problem, though it may be a bit unprofessional. �Here is what I found:
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I do like what Cat Lover did. �I think we need more of that. �I too use AF Cyn year round and would have been there to add numbers to the protest but was unaware. �Great job CL!

Hey if you want to get involved you can go to Duff Shelley's in AF, Powerhouse Motorsports in PG or Alpine Powersports in Lindon. They have a petition there to be signed. There is also a fact sheet with Mr Ferrebee's contact info if you want to try to reach him.

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #8 - 12/31/07 at 14:22:39

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260 E MAIN ST
AMERICAN FORK, UT �84003-2410
Phone: (801) 756-3613
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POWERHOUSE MOTORSPORTS (anyone know of a website?)
25 W STATE RD
PLEASANT GROVE, UT �84062-2673
Phone: (801) 785-2244
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Valleysol God Member Big Ride 7 PLEAA Big Ride Offline I Love Utah! Posts: 313 Springville Utah Gender:	Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures Reply #9 - 01/02/08 at 13:45:34 What this club has done and is doing is GREAT. They are getting the attention of the right people. We need more people like these that are willing to stand up, speak up and take action! THANKS PATHFINDERZZ
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RazorKQ Senior Member Sponsoring Member Offline Let's Ride! Posts: 141 Lehi, UT Gender:	Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures Reply #10 - 01/08/08 at 18:00:15 Ok...added two more to the list. Had a tough time finding a time when they were open. I hope something comes from it.
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carlc44 God Member Offline Love to ride. Posts: 352 Saratoga Springs, UT Gender:	Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures Reply #11 - 02/05/08 at 16:04:10 What is the latest on this issue, are we making any progress? I have called Ferebee's office, but he is "off" today. Will try again later.
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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #12 - 02/01/14 at 21:46:26

Old thread, I know, but thought I'd mention things have not changed. �I drove up Snake Creek on my ATV last weekend and was quite disappointed when I came to the "only over the snow vehicles" sign about 2 miles from the bloody trailhead. �I was quite ticked. �Why the %&#& can't they put those signs at the trialhead so we know BEFORE we park, unload, dress up, and then drive up the trail???? �And why do they think our tires are hurting the groomed trail?? I could barely see where I'd just driven up the trail 5 minutes ago? �My tracks were digging into the snow less than the snowmobile treads were....
Really makes me mad that atv riders pay for the majority of these trails AND the grooming but we can't use it.
When I made my feelings clear to some snowmobilers at the staging area when I returned, most of them didn't understand why I didn't just keep on going. �They didn't care if I was riding "their" trail!

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #13 - 02/02/14 at 16:21:17

They should put registration fees into seperate funds. One for ATV/motorcycles, and one for snow mobiles, and use only the money in each fund for each trail maint/grooming.

We had the same problems here in Wyoming where the snowmobile crowd got the majorty of the fundiing provided by registrations while ATV usage kicked in the majority of the money. Not sure how that got resolved

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #14 - 02/04/14 at 12:44:56

That is not all. My machine is equipped with tracks so it is an over the snow machine and I am locked at as well.

A couple of weeks ago we had a search and rescue up AF Canyon. With the aide of a airplane we located the individuals (on one machine) and got snowmobiles into their location up above Mineral Basin. The two of us with tracked machines tried for an hour and a half to get the gate post thawed but we were unsuccessful. So even though we had a key to the gate we were ineffective and could not help with the rescue.

We had a ten year old hypodermic kid, and the snowmobile team requested our tracked vehicles so we could put the kid in a heated enclosure and we were unable to get past the gate to go in to help.

I talked to the Forest Service Ranger and he explained that it takes two hours to thaw that gate in the winter. I told him we were hindered in the rescue because of the gate. I asked him what we were supposed to do if we had to bring our snow-cat in there for an airplane crash or something far more serious. He did not have an answer and he was not to please when I told him what I was told when I asked the Sheriff's Department the same question. They said we would hook onto the wood fence and pull it down if it was life threatening situation. The Ranger did say that he would take it before their safety committee...for what that is worth.

Problem is...Diamond Fork and Payson Canyon have much beefier fences. Guess they don't care. Wait until some parent sues their butts because we could not access the patient...

The Forest Service is becoming just like our worthless congress and useless president. They want more and more money and expect us to be happy with less and less service.

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Re: American Fork Canyon Trail Closures
Reply #15 - 02/05/14 at 13:18:04

SARrider wrote on 02/04/14 at 12:44:56:

That is not all. �My machine is equipped with tracks so it is an over the snow machine and I am locked at as well.

A couple of weeks ago we had a search and rescue up AF Canyon. �With the aide of a airplane we located the individuals (on one machine) and got snowmobiles into their location up above Mineral Basin. �The two of us with tracked machines tried for an hour and a half to get the gate post thawed but we were unsuccessful. �So even though we had a key to the gate we were ineffective and could not help with the rescue.

We had a ten year old hypodermic kid, and the snowmobile team requested our tracked vehicles so we could put the kid in a heated enclosure and we were unable to get past the gate to go in to help.

I talked to the Forest Service Ranger and he explained that it takes two hours to thaw that gate in the winter. �I told him we were hindered in the rescue because of the gate. �I asked him what we were supposed to do if we had to bring our snow-cat in there for an airplane crash or something far more serious. �He did not have an answer and he was not to please when I told him what I was told when I asked the Sheriff's Department the same question. �They said we would hook onto the wood fence and pull it down if it was life threatening situation. �The Ranger did say that he would take it before their safety committee...for what that is worth.

Problem is...Diamond Fork and Payson Canyon have much beefier fences. �Guess they don't care. �Wait until some parent sues their butts because we could not access the patient...

The Forest Service is becoming just like our worthless congress and useless president. �They want more and more money and expect us to be happy with less and less service.

That is one sickening story I must say. �And your last sentence is so terribly true that it ought to be their motto. �I try to give them the benefit of the doubt most of the time, but lately, all I can come up with is just the doubt.

Two years ago, I helped with the half way aid station on the Squaw Peak 50 mile ultramarathon. �Our station was supposed to be at the top saddle of the Squaw Peak road and Hobble Creek intersection. �But, the Forest Circus didn't get out of bed on time to come unlock the last gate for us to get to our spot. �So, we had to set up the station at the gate which made all the runners come down the mountain an extra 3 miles (6 miles round trip) and lose (and gain) a couple hundred feet of elevation just to get to us. �And they had to get to us because we were the half way station which was also the check in station. �If they didn't check in, they weren't allowed to finish the last 25 miles. �Well, at about 10:00 a.m., the Forest Circus patrol officer finally showed up to unlock the gate, about four hours too late unfortunately. �He got booed and yelled at by the race director and about a hundred unhappy race participants. �All he had to say for himself was to ask if we had our BLM and FS special use permits filled out! �I tell you he was lucky to make it out of there alive. �
So that year, the 50 mile race was actually a 56 mile race due to the negligence and stupidity of the US Forest Circus. �Being an avid ATV'er, I wasn't too surprised at the attitude of the FS because I'd seen them in action many, many times before. Sad

�
I think they forget that they are there to SERVE us, not to RULE us! soap box

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